I really like your "virtual clock" idea. Maybe the distance rollback on the Pro Ball (if that really happens) will help with the distance off the tee issues you pointed out. Maybe its time for a change in COR for the pros on drivers and fairway metals. Not sure how this works on the 250 3 iron ?
This is where I question whether your FSC (fake shot clock) would have any effect. Do these guys really care (much) what others think of them, at least within the context of what they do to make big bucks? I mean, the specter of being fined actual dollars for slow play doesn't speed them up, and that's (de jure, anyway) already on the books.
So the opprobrium from you and me and the rest of the world, even their peers (see: Cantlay), wouldn't likely change their behavior, IMHO.
I'd like to see less-pristine fairways (they get 50 f'n yards of roll, I get 1 yard of roll when it doesn't jump backwards a yard), bunkers moved to landing distances, smaller driver heads, and shorter tees. Not a ball rollback. Nothing scientific about my desires, just anecdotal from what I've read over the past few years.
For a ball rollback to have ANY impact, it would have to roll drives back by at least 50 yards, not the piddling amount the USGA/R&A have embraced. And 50 will never happen.
the courses aren't too long for the ams, only for the tour pros. too bad two sets of equipment rules weren't an option. that was the easy solution but the equipment companies wouldn't go along with it. i don't think the ball rollback will get it done, they'll probably reduce clubhead sizes too. but i'm starting to think it's not going to be an easy rollback--a rebellion is brewing.
the PGA Tour tried something like that for a while in the early 2000s i think. with ShotLink data, they already know which players are the slowest. they would give them the last times in the morning and afternoon wave, which is a penalty with the greens being stepped on. but that didn't seem to work. many other ways to penalize them that are real: Like, the 10 slowest players no longer get courtesy cars, etc. hit 'em where they live.
Def true. I'm not expecting any real action on this soon. I think the fake shot clock numbers, which the media would run with and post, might shame some of them into playing faster. the court of public opinion is pretty strong these days.
excellent idea. i like it. of course, we've got to get a shot clock out there first. my fake shot clock is just getting a foot in the door to collect data and actually use public pressure (once the numbers are seen) to speed these guys up. But i'm not holding my breath!
PGA Tour is out of touch. They need to address this now. Shot clock, time each play, do something! Try anything! It's a joke that they won't address the issue. At least the LPGA has the balls to implement penalties!
Shot clock with chess approach. Give every player 40 deconds times 75 shots for 300 total. As soon as the other player hits start the clock of the next player ala Shane Lowry. Shane could use 5 seconds for a fairway shot and 60 for a putt and still finish with yime in the bank. Have to send a clock person w each player of twosome. Use your publication idea with it.
Wow, Mr. Van Sickle nailed it. I”was” an avid golf viewer but recently my interest in these over paid crying PGA Tour players has turned me off completely. They are egotistical, prudish, and need to get their asses moving.
Gary, you make a great point. If there was a shot clock, every player would be forced to be prepared to play their shots or face some kind of discipline. But in the meantime, I’d suggest using the data from your fake clock to identify the slowest players & not allow them to be seen on TV. Maybe their sponsors will rethink how much they are paying for lack of airtime. Eyeballs = $$$$.
Personally, I don’t really care how long the pros take as the networks ultimately control the length of the broadcast. If they stopped the broadcast at a fixed time you can bet the PGA Tour would get more involved in the issue. But let’s face it, they all make lots of $$$$ off advertizing & their profits matter a lot more than people whining about slow play.
Good idea. if all players speed up, then maybe the slowest ones should not be punished - assuming they have improved. I suggest they be grouped according to their speed of play. The lowest group are incentivised to get out of that group. You can have a majority of fast players and fields will still be slow if that last group continues to be too slow.
Rory is one of the few players willing to advocate rolling back the ball. You make it sound like he’s guilty because he uses current technology so effectively.
The new CEO of the PGA of America, Derek Sprague was quoted as saying, “I don't know one recreational golfer that wants to hit it shorter”. That misses the point. Why not strive to hit it 500 yards? I believe that most recreational golfers actually want more courses, more tee times, faster play, and lower costs. Too bad these wise men didn't listen to Jack Nicklaus years ago when he suggested rolling the ball back 20% and building 12-hole courses. That would have provided more playing opportunities and made many thousands of acres available for more courses and other uses. It would also contribute to faster play.
An 2022 analysis by “mygolfspy.com” of the percentage of private versus non-private courses in the USA indicates that about 75% are non-private. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the percent of revenue earned by the PGA of America and its member professionals from each of these sources. Likely the reverse.
Bottom line: I would love to see more focus on the silent majority of “recreational golfers” and their interests, needs and wants in playing facilities and opportunities.
I really like your "virtual clock" idea. Maybe the distance rollback on the Pro Ball (if that really happens) will help with the distance off the tee issues you pointed out. Maybe its time for a change in COR for the pros on drivers and fairway metals. Not sure how this works on the 250 3 iron ?
"and get tired of the derision"
This is where I question whether your FSC (fake shot clock) would have any effect. Do these guys really care (much) what others think of them, at least within the context of what they do to make big bucks? I mean, the specter of being fined actual dollars for slow play doesn't speed them up, and that's (de jure, anyway) already on the books.
So the opprobrium from you and me and the rest of the world, even their peers (see: Cantlay), wouldn't likely change their behavior, IMHO.
I'd like to see less-pristine fairways (they get 50 f'n yards of roll, I get 1 yard of roll when it doesn't jump backwards a yard), bunkers moved to landing distances, smaller driver heads, and shorter tees. Not a ball rollback. Nothing scientific about my desires, just anecdotal from what I've read over the past few years.
For a ball rollback to have ANY impact, it would have to roll drives back by at least 50 yards, not the piddling amount the USGA/R&A have embraced. And 50 will never happen.
the courses aren't too long for the ams, only for the tour pros. too bad two sets of equipment rules weren't an option. that was the easy solution but the equipment companies wouldn't go along with it. i don't think the ball rollback will get it done, they'll probably reduce clubhead sizes too. but i'm starting to think it's not going to be an easy rollback--a rebellion is brewing.
the PGA Tour tried something like that for a while in the early 2000s i think. with ShotLink data, they already know which players are the slowest. they would give them the last times in the morning and afternoon wave, which is a penalty with the greens being stepped on. but that didn't seem to work. many other ways to penalize them that are real: Like, the 10 slowest players no longer get courtesy cars, etc. hit 'em where they live.
Def true. I'm not expecting any real action on this soon. I think the fake shot clock numbers, which the media would run with and post, might shame some of them into playing faster. the court of public opinion is pretty strong these days.
excellent idea. i like it. of course, we've got to get a shot clock out there first. my fake shot clock is just getting a foot in the door to collect data and actually use public pressure (once the numbers are seen) to speed these guys up. But i'm not holding my breath!
PGA Tour is out of touch. They need to address this now. Shot clock, time each play, do something! Try anything! It's a joke that they won't address the issue. At least the LPGA has the balls to implement penalties!
Shot clock with chess approach. Give every player 40 deconds times 75 shots for 300 total. As soon as the other player hits start the clock of the next player ala Shane Lowry. Shane could use 5 seconds for a fairway shot and 60 for a putt and still finish with yime in the bank. Have to send a clock person w each player of twosome. Use your publication idea with it.
Wow, Mr. Van Sickle nailed it. I”was” an avid golf viewer but recently my interest in these over paid crying PGA Tour players has turned me off completely. They are egotistical, prudish, and need to get their asses moving.
I'm lazy—just make them play hickory!
Great stuff as usual, thank you!
Gary, you make a great point. If there was a shot clock, every player would be forced to be prepared to play their shots or face some kind of discipline. But in the meantime, I’d suggest using the data from your fake clock to identify the slowest players & not allow them to be seen on TV. Maybe their sponsors will rethink how much they are paying for lack of airtime. Eyeballs = $$$$.
Personally, I don’t really care how long the pros take as the networks ultimately control the length of the broadcast. If they stopped the broadcast at a fixed time you can bet the PGA Tour would get more involved in the issue. But let’s face it, they all make lots of $$$$ off advertizing & their profits matter a lot more than people whining about slow play.
THAT is a creative idea, no TV air time!
Good idea. if all players speed up, then maybe the slowest ones should not be punished - assuming they have improved. I suggest they be grouped according to their speed of play. The lowest group are incentivised to get out of that group. You can have a majority of fast players and fields will still be slow if that last group continues to be too slow.
Rory is one of the few players willing to advocate rolling back the ball. You make it sound like he’s guilty because he uses current technology so effectively.
The new CEO of the PGA of America, Derek Sprague was quoted as saying, “I don't know one recreational golfer that wants to hit it shorter”. That misses the point. Why not strive to hit it 500 yards? I believe that most recreational golfers actually want more courses, more tee times, faster play, and lower costs. Too bad these wise men didn't listen to Jack Nicklaus years ago when he suggested rolling the ball back 20% and building 12-hole courses. That would have provided more playing opportunities and made many thousands of acres available for more courses and other uses. It would also contribute to faster play.
An 2022 analysis by “mygolfspy.com” of the percentage of private versus non-private courses in the USA indicates that about 75% are non-private. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the percent of revenue earned by the PGA of America and its member professionals from each of these sources. Likely the reverse.
Bottom line: I would love to see more focus on the silent majority of “recreational golfers” and their interests, needs and wants in playing facilities and opportunities.